John E. Carlisle Notes
From David Carlisle
Howard Carlisle has recently found some information on the voyage of the Clara Wheeler, which is included in his addendum dated May 1995.
We understand from family records that John G. Carlisle came to Utah in 1855 driving a wagon for William S. Godbe. The following information on William S. Godbe sheds some light on this:
The following is from the History of Salt Lake (188?), Appendix, page 50. I believe this was written by Edward Tullidge, an early member of the "Godbeite" movement. Mr Godbe was born in London, England in 1833. [1999 Note: Two recent books may be of interest here, one on the Godbeite Movement, and one on David Hyrum Smith]
After his [William S. Godbe's] arrival in Salt Lake City in 1851, he engaged with Thomas S. Williams, a first class merchant, and in a few years, the youth whose energy and uncommon "grit" had made on foot a journey of thousands of miles, had himself grown to be one of the most substantial men in the Mormon community.
In the early days of Utah, an agent to go east and purchase goods for the people was a necessity and W. S. Godbe was the man of their choice, for already his public spirit was recognized and appreciated by the community, even in a commercial career, where public spirit is truly uncommon. Yearly, he went east on the people's commercial business as well as his own. The day of starting was advertised in season, and then men and women from all parts of the Territory thronged his office with their commissions Thus, Mr. Godbe purchased hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of goods for the people of Utah, and the arrival of his trains gave periodical sensations to the city, so many being personally interested.
Prior to the completion of the Union Pacific Railroad, Godbe made no less than twenty-four trips across the Plains to the Missouri River .... [end of quote]
The following comes from The Historical Record, Church Encyclopedia Book 1 (1889) by Andrew Jenson, page 286
"At an early day the settlers west of the Jordan were under the jurisdiction of the Nineteenth and Sixteenth Ward Bishoprics, and the people generally attended meetings in the City. The Brighton Ward was organized in answer to the following petition from the settlers and those owning land west of the river Jordan, not comprehended in any previous organization.
"Brighton, Feb 2, 1867.
Pres. Brigham Young.
"Dear Brother. We, the undersigned members of the Brighton Ward, would be much pleased if you would appoint or cause to be appointed an officer to preside over this ward as a Bishop, believing that the moral and pecuniary interests of the people here would be greatly benefited by such a step. We have had no meetings, and but few regulations, which are so much needed to keep us in training and to unite us in carrying out every enterprise inaugurated for our mutual good."
The last of the 14 signers was "J. G. Carlisle"
The name John G. Carlisle (and as I recall, Margaret Kewley Carlisle) appears in the Directory of Individuals Residing in Salt Lake City Wards, 1854 - 1861 (printed 1982). He appears as residing in the 17th Ward in 1859.
In the USU thesis, "Voices of Dissent, a history of the RLDS Church in Utah, 1863 - 1900, the name "John E. Carlise" appears on page 120 as one of about 25 people baptized in the Salt Lake Mission in 1869. No other Carlisles are on the list. A footnote suggests this was taken from RLDS "Old Utah Branch Records (1865-1900)", but the RLDS Librarian was not aware of a film of that name. It may be taken from the film "Records of the Rocky Mountain Mission" of the RLDS Church [Film, Utah, #4] at the USU Merrill Library, which I have not seen.
In Susan Black's book "Early Members of the RLDS" (1993) the name "John E. Carlisle" is listed as having been found in Early Reorganization Minutes, 1852-1871, Book A, p 680. The only other Carlisle listed was baptized in 1894. At least one unrelated "Carlile" is listed. A copy of the pages referred has been obtained from the RLDS church archives in Missouri. It was found to be a "Branch Report from 1868 to Dec 31, 1871" of the Salt Lake Branch of the RLDS Church. It shows "John Edward Carlisle, Salt Lake City, Utah, 4 March 1858" to be the 73rd member accepted into the branch, presumably since 1868. The number 23 listed above the name seems to indicate he was the 23rd of those on the original list who was still a member there as of the end of 1871. Several pages later, on page 685, it shows member #73 was baptized and confirmed by David Hyrum Smith, youngest son of Joseph Smith, on the 23rd of August, 1869. This page includes a note showing those who have "gone east, gone west, removed, cut off, or expelled." Those names without such a note have been numbered, with member #73 numbered as 23. Recall that John E. Carlisle would have been 11 years old at the time of this baptism. David Hyrum Smith and his brother Alexander Hale Smith came on a mission to Utah shortly after the railroad was completed in 1869.
It is tempting to believe that the intellectual and economic rebellion led by William S. Godbe in about 1869 had an influence on John G. Carlisle's apparent disaffection with the church. (see for example, the Comprehensive History of the Church, or the history of Brigham Young.)
Note, June 95:
In the LDS Church Ancestral File, there is an interesting reference to
William Godbe marrying an Ann Carlisle, with the source listed as being
from our cousin, Beatrice White. The microfilm number of the original
submission is listed there. I checked the microfilm and found the page of
the submission listing the family of John G. and Margaret Kewley Carlisle
and their children. The next page listed another family related to either
Beatrice White or her husband, whose last name as I recall was Thompson,
and who had a daughter Ann who married William Godbe. Therefore, the entry
in the LDS Ancestral file is an error, which I have brought to their
attention, which hopefully will be corrected in the next edition due out in
several years time.
Family records suggest the Carlisle's moved to Nebraska City in 1869. The Branch Report above suggests they moved after 1871. We know they returned to Utah from Nebraska in August of 1876, after all the children of age had been baptized by James Little in June of that year.
Howard Carlisle has informed me that an old family picture in his posession was recently identified as Joseph Smith III, first president of the RLDS church. This has been donated to the USU Library. I understand this was a head and shoulders portrait style picture. Another photo of Joseph Smith III has now been identified in an old family picture album belonging to Alma Carlisle. I have not yet seen this picture. [This note about a second photo may be an error]
I am aware that there are 9 pages of Branch Records of the Nebraska City Branch of the RLDS church which have been recently microfilmed by the LDS church, but have not yet been cataloged. I requested the RLDS Church Asst Librarian to check those pages for the name John Carlisle. She reported that name was not found there.
From James A. Little Journal, typescript at BYU, pages 68-75:
On April 19, 1876, Elder James A. Little was "appointed to take charge and preside over the various branches of the Church in Iowa, Nebraska, Da Kota and Minnesota" and part of Missouri. The central paragraph of his mission call is as follows:
In the field of labor to which you are assigned you will find many who have once tasted of the pure principles of the gospel who have turned away from the same, and who delight to argue and cavil with regard to the plan of salvation. Treat such with kindness; present the truth to them in meekness, but avoid all argument and disputation; bear your testimony, proclaim your message and leave the results with the Lord, let his spirit supply the arguments, and when your words reach those truly honest the result will be apparent in the due time of the Lord.
Friday 16th. [June 1876] I went by railway to Nebraska City, Nebraska, by invitation to visit Brother John Carlisle and family. I found them enjoying much of the spirit of the Gospel.
Saturday 17th. I spent the day mostly in reading and conversation at Brother Carlisle's.
Sunday 18th. After we had eaten dinner a hymn was sung followed by prayer at the house when Brother Carlisle and family went with me to a place which had been prepared and baptized five of Brother Carlisle's children the oldest eighteen years and the youngest eight years old. We returned to the house where I confirmed those who had been baptized, ordained the oldest an Elder, administered to sister Carlisle for her health, blessed the babe, and assisted by brother Carlisle administered the Sacrament. We were blessed with much of the Holy Spirit and rejoiced together.
Monday 19th. I spent most of the day at Brother Carlisle's. I returned in the evening to Council Bluffs.
Tuesday 8th [August 1876] I returned to Council Bluffs where I found Elder Young. He reported having a good meeting at the Boomer Branch. Here I found a letter from Brother Carlisle's family in Nebraska City. Five of the family I baptized on the eighteenth of last June. They notified me that they would pass through Council Bluffs on their way to Utah this morning, and would like to see me at the station. I regret that I am too late."
Note that there is a picture which appears to be our John G. Carlisle found in the book Life In Zion, on page 71. He is at the end of a line of people said to be working on the baptismal font of the Logan Temple.
Annie Carlisle was the second child of John G. Carlisle. The card recording her endowment says she was baptized in May of 1874, when she was 14 years old, two years and one month prior to the baptism done by James Little, if the recorded date is correct. There may be LDS Church records from Nebraska which confirm this. This could shed light on the mystery of who invited James Little to the home of John G. Carlisle in 1876, and how John E. Carlisle could be ready to be ordained an elder on the same day he was baptized.
Margaret Agnes Carlisle, fourth child of John and Margaret Carlisle, choked to death on 28 March 1885 when she was 21 years old. (This is from Ruth Challis in Cedar City, who says her mother, Beatrice Carlisle Mitchell often warned her to chew her food carefully so she wouldn't choke to death like her aunt did.) Howard Carlisle recently found a picture I've not seen, marked "Agnes." The church Ancestral File program says she was married to a Joseph Aninney, but I do not know where this information came from, and is likely a mistake.
Annie Carlisle, noted above, received her own endowments on 15 April 1885, then apparently received endowments by proxy for Margaret Carlisle on the following day. Annie and her older brother John E. Carlisle were sealed to their parents on 24 July 1885, as their parents were not sealed until after their first two children were born. Then on 15 Sept 1885 (or 13 Nov 1885 according to Smith Family Records) Annie Carlisle was married as a second wife to Isaac Smith. He was two years her senior, had been married for eight years and had three children. He was the manager of ZCMI in Logan, and later became president of the Cache stake. Annie died about a year later, 17 September 1886, possibly in childbirth. Her death notice in the Logan Herald Journal indicates she was born on the Isle of Man, which is incorrect, and inconsistent with the TIB card. The notice I saw lists her last name as Carlisle, which may be related to persecution of polygamists which was intense at that time. I am not aware where she is buried.
Two years later in 1888, John E. Carlisle's wife of three years died. Six months later he remarried, but his second wife died about nine months later in childbirth. I had wondered if this was the reason John and Margaret's third child Lillian never married, but I heard recently she had a boyfriend in Nebraska that either died or was killed, and she thought no one else could be compared to him.
I don't know much about the history of Heber Carlisle, fifth child of John and Margaret. His diaries and papers are in the posession of his granddaughter, Sandra Rawlins, in Stockton California. I have a note from Alma Carlisle that the diary of Uncle Heber said John Carlisle was in Lord Nelson's Ship. Someday this should be checked.
The sixth child, Robert Bruce, was the babe blessed by James Little, and died when one year old in April 1877.
Some notes on Sarah Storer.
Sarah Storer was the sister, or half sister of John G. Carlisle. The records show she was baptized 12 JUN 1850, one month after John G. was baptized. It is interesting to note that the names of her children after this date included Eliza Snow, Moroni, George Hyrum and Joseph. The following paragraphs are taken from a Biography of Joseph Storer on file with the Daughters of the Pioneers in Salt Lake.
Joseph Storer was born 1st May 1854 in Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England. The fifth child and the third son of Dennis and Sarah Carlisle Storer. His parents were converts to the church, his father coming to America in 1864, where he found employment in New York City.
The mother and eight children, the oldest 17 years and the youngest a baby a few months old followed in 1865. The vessel they were to sail on was so overloaded, they with many others had to wait several days for the next ship. This vessel they were to have taken was lost at sea in a storm and all passengers were lost.
They sailed on the next vessel and it docked in Boston Mass., instead of New York City, with no one there to meet her the mother found lodging for herself and family and wrote to New York to her husband, telling him she was in Boston, but the letter came back, stating that he had moved on, and no one knew where he had gone.
Years after mother had passed on, the eldest daugther Eliza, with the help of her brothers and sisters, through long searching, located their father in Pennsylvania. They wrote to him, but he being aged, they never did see him again.
Joseph's mother joined a group of Saints and came to Utah late in 1865, settling in Croyden, Morgan County, Utah.
Alma Carlisle tells me that John G. Carlisle was living with a David Storer in the 1851 census. Recall that John's mother Mary Shannon died in 1832 when John was 5 years old. Her grave has been found by Alma Carlisle in Nottingham. John's father remarried, then died in 1841 when John was about 14. When John received his endowments in 1860 he listed his parents names simply as "John and Mary," which was also done by some other endowment patrons listed on the same page. He listed his birthdate with the incorrect year. The TIB card listing this endowment suggests he wrote "John Carlisle and Mary Smith," but this is not in the original record. There is other information on the card obtained later than 1860. When Sarah Storer received her endowments in 1875, she plainly lists her parents as John Carlisle and Mary Shannon. Some letters from John E. Carlisle when he was on a mission in England shed some light on this. One letter reports he found his father's mother had been married to a man named Smith. Another letter says John and Mary were married in Yorkshire. A marriage certificate for a John Carlile and Mary Shannon in Pocklington, Yorkshire was found by Alma Carlisle in a recent IGI, and a photocopy has been obtained. We have no idea why they were married in Yorkshire.
There is a Peter Carlisle family in London which has several family names coincidental with names in the family of John G. Carlisle, and it is tempting to think this Peter Carlisle was an uncle to John G. Carlisle, however no connection has been found.
Some notes on Kewleys
Beatrice Carlisle is said to have done a lot of work on the Kewley line, of which I have not seen a copy. Alma Carlisle found that Thomas Kewley died in Cleveland Ohio on July 4 1856, as the Martin Company was passing through by train. A search for the TIB cards of Kewleys shows that cards for James and Ann are not there, however a check of the original records confirms that they were endowed on the dates indicated in family records. There is a note by John E. Carlisle about the baptism dates of the Kewleys, which confirms they were baptized before the accepted date when work began in the Isle of Man, and it lists the name of the man who did the baptism.
At a 1995 family gathering it was decided Margaret Kewley had a few toes missing from her experience in the Martin Company, and reports of her feet being amputated were inaccurate. (Also, Thomas Lythgoe recalled hearing Margaret Kewley hobbled when she walked, and had some toes missing.) We also recalled hearing that James Kewley was ready to give up on the day rescuers finally arrived, and that Margaret was responsible for getting him going that morning. It would be useful to try to sort through any other family recollections about the Martin Company to determine which are the most accurate, particularly concerning John Carlisle's involvement in the rescue party.
Howard Carlisle has a small bible printed on the Isle of Man which apparently came in the handcart with the Kewleys. [This appears to be incorrect, as the bible came from elsewhere]
John G. Carlisle's brother Peter had a sister-in-law in the Martin Company who was travelling as a single 18 year old girl. Her name was Eliza Elliott, and it is clear she and John would have associated with each other in England. She married Robert Watson from Springville. I believe Peter Carlisle's name appears in the IGI, having been submitted by Eliza Watson after his death.
A year or so ago the Salt Lake Cemetery did not list a James Kewley buried there. I found some old cemetery records that show him buried under the name "Kevley" but present records do not show that name either. He and Ann Kewley are apparently buried in an unmarked plot near the Cowleys, although the list of those buried in that plot do not include James, even though he is listed as owning the plot. [Wrong, lot is owned by a Newly, unrelated, and not a misspelling] I have not showed them the old records. [They have him listed under Rowley]
The following two paragraphs are from some notes I made about Robert Kewley, brother of Margaret Kewley Carlisle. It is said his family left the church. A relative of his wife, Farrell Edwards of Logan, recently told me he was not aware that family was ever in the church. [Much more information is available on Robert Kewley, as of 1999]
Robert Kewley's parents James and Ann were baptized in the Isle of Man in 1840, apparently several months before John Taylor arrived there. They came to Utah in 1856 in the Martin Handcart Company when Robert was 11 years old. They were sealed in the Endowment House in 1857. His mother Ann died in 1859, and is buried in the Salt Lake Cemetery, not far from Cowleys, who were also from the Isle of Man. Robert Kewley's obituary states he came to Clarkston in 1860. (Why Clarkston, and did his father come as well?) His father married Elizabeth King in 1861. A card in ECIF (Early Church Information File) indicates she was baptized in 1863, and also was from the Isle of Man. James died in 1867. The Salt Lake Cemetery has no record of him now, but a copy of their records made in 1931 shows him as James Kevley. They show no Kevley there now either. I've yet to show them the earlier record. I've never found a cemetery record for Elizabeth Kewley, and I believe there are no Kewleys in the Logan Cemetery. (Later Note: James Kewley is in SLC Cemetery as James Rowley)
Robert Kewley married Alice Farrell Lewis in the Endowment House in 1875. He was called on a mission to Europe from the High Priest's Quorum in Benson, Cache County, in 1880. He was set apart April 9, 1880, and returned May 1, 1883. The only child's birthdate I have is for Emma Kewley, 7 May 77, from a card indicating she was endowed in the Logan Temple in June 1901. The ECIF indicates she received a Cache county marriage license with someone named Osborn that same month. (Could there be Osborn descendants in the church? -- probably not) There is no Emma listed in the obituary for Robert Kewley in 1923. The ECIF indicates a Cache county marriage license was obtained for Ann Kewley (Nelson) on 31 Dec 1909.